Mumbai Bye

[00:00:02] Welcome to Chicago Musician. I'm your host, Shawn Stengel. Well, Delhi, the Taj Mahal, Punjab, Kashmir, what more could there possibly be? [00:00:16] Well, you know what they say : big country, big podcasts. And even if that's not something that they say, we have a lot of cool places yet to cover before we leave India. Like Mumbai. [00:00:47] Mumbai, or as they used to call it, Bombay. My Punjabi driver said they still call it Bombay. So I don't know what the rules are. But for this episode, we'll call it Mumbai. [00:00:59] It is the largest city in India, I believe, even bigger than Delhi, but completely different. However, we're not there yet. When last we left our intrepid travelers, Gisele and me, we were still in Srinagar, up in Jammu and Kashmir. So the morning of the 10 April, we needed to get to the airport and fly back to Delhi. We had a day and a half in Delhi before we were going on our weekend adventure to Mumbai. So a thing I remember. . . Tariq from our houseboat, the Lily of Nagine. Lily of Nageen. I keep saying Nagine, Lily of Nageen. Tariq drove us to the airport. It's quite a ways on crazy Srinagar roads. But the weirdest thing. . . Remember how I talked about it being occupied by the Indian army because of all the conflicts with the Chinese and the Pakistanis and the still ongoing I don't know if it's terrorist threats or ethnic threats? There's still conflict there in any case. And so it's very occupied by the Indian army. [00:02:15] So we get to the airport, and we have to get out of our van and take our luggage and run it through the x ray machine. And everybody's crowded into this tiny little hut to do this. We wait our turn, and then you see that this is where we're getting dumped off for the airport. [00:02:36] So we go through. And then they give you your luggage back. So we go out the other side of the hut, and fortunately for us, there's Tariq waiting for us. And we reload our luggage and drive to the terminal. But most people got dumped off at the hut by their taxi driver, or whoever took them to the airport. And it's still almost 2 kilometers to the terminal. So everybody's still got their luggage that they're carting down the road. There's no sidewalk all the way, a long ways to get to the terminal to check in. Fortunately, we rode. A little local knowledge there was appreciated. But so weird. And I don't know if it's passive aggressive control issues with the Indian army, you know, just trying to be dicks about this. I don't know. But a lot of it feels intentional just to sort of irritate everybody. They'll say it's for safety. It seems like it's control issues to me. Anyhow, we made it to the airport. All the airports in India that we were in at least were pretty nice too. Super nice. And even Indigo Airlines, which we flew internally, I think it's only a 2007 company, started back in 2007. So their planes are new and clean. And it was very pleasant flying experiences we had internally. So we finally get on the plane and we take off and we have another exquisitely clear day at the foothills of the Himalayas. So once we get up to altitude, I think we saw K2. We also saw K3, or whatever the name of the third largest mountain on earth is. I think it's in Pakistan? Again, I think we're too far west to see Everest, but we saw huge mountains and it was just glorious. Thank God for window seats. And I was clever. I always booked Gisele and I back to back [00:04:45] So I would sit in 7A and she would be in 8A, so we both had a view. Isn't that clever? Yeah. So, beautiful flight back to Delhi. A lot of India was very, very brown. Dry farmland, pretty poor. And even as you get closer to Delhi, there's still a lot of those areas where they're making bricks and have those crazy chimneys, I guess the kilns? where they make the bricks. But it's quite rural and poor and brown until you get very close to Delhi. And then suddenly the city pops up and it's massive. But I love flying. I love looking at a country, some of which I'm not going to really see up close, but I still, I get an impression of it and I find that fascinating. So, for us, we got back in the middle of day. We had arranged with Mr. Sam to pick us up. He was now our friend, had rearranged his schedule so he was available to us all of Wednesday afternoon and evening. He wanted to show us a few more places in Delhi. I don't know if it's places that I'd expressed an interest in or places that he'd suggested? I think it was a combination of the both. But one of the things he had offered was for us to go with him to the main Sikh temple in Delhi. He's Punjabi and Sikh. Always had a turban on, often colorful: red, pink, a light blue one. I remember gray. Very stylish. And so he was going to show us his temple. [00:06:32] So that was part of our day. But first we got back to the embassy, cleaned up a little bit, had lunch or something, and then Mr. Sam came and picked us up and he took us to the Gandhi Smriti. It's the place where Gandhi spent his last 100 and, I don't know, 20? 160? days. And this was during the partitioning of India, which was horrible and messy and murderous and just beyond the pale. aAt a certain point it was so bad that Gandhi used one of the few tools he had left to him that he'd used a couple of other times in his life. He went on a hunger strike. [00:07:20] He said, if the six parties of, I don't know, the Hindus, the Sikhs, the Pakistanis, all the territorial/ethnic clashes that were going on, all six leaders had to sign an agreement that this was going to come to an end. And everybody's like, there's no way that these people will ever even meet each other, let alone agree. So he goes on this hunger strike and got as close to death, I think, as is humanly possible without dying, because those six leaders did sign this agreement. Gandhi was politically not in control, but he was somehow still the Conscience of India. And he really spoke for the Indian people, is my understanding. And so the thought of losing Gandhi was beyond what anyone could imagine. So when he was on the brink of death, they finally signed this agreement. Then he started taking liquid and eventually was regaining his strength. And even when he was on the hunger strike, I think he had evening prayers in a courtyard of this building. Now, when I read about this and about Gandhi, I was thinking, oh, there's some hut in an area of Delhi where he lives modestly. And then there's a garden where he goes out and leads evening prayers for the masses. [00:08:46] Well, it's hardly a hut. It's a beautiful marble mansion. Yes, he had a room, or a room and a half that was lovely. Kind of like the sun room, I guess, where he just had a bed and his spinning wheel and his glasses and a staff. Not much else. But it was hardly 'roughing it' as I had imagined. And there's a whole other mansion now that's a museum. And it's a fantastic museum about his life and about the partitioning and a lot of things. [00:09:24] In fact, we didn't have a lot of time there, but we did go upstairs and they're like, oh, would you like a guide for your interactive experience? They have this beautiful installation on the second floor of modern art pieces and things, but all explaining Gandhi and the periods of his life and parts of India. And I told the guide, because we were on a schedule, I said, we have 15 minutes. It really should be like a two hour tour, right? [00:09:53] So he's rushing us from room to room. And they had these things like a whole row of elephants. And if you pulled the trunk on this one, it would tell you about Gandhi when he lived here. And if you pulled the trunk on the other one. . . So all sorts of installations like that where you could have spent hours learning the minutiae of his life. We didn't have time. [00:10:12] But I'm glad we experienced a little bit of it. [00:10:15] But the more somber part of this story is this is also the garden where Gandhi, not too many months later, was assassinated. And you can see they have, [00:10:34] from the room where he lived, they have put down the pathway of his last footsteps on his way to the garden to lead evening prayers. His final footsteps, they're still on the sidewalk there. [00:10:53] And you can look at it and. . . [00:10:55] It's sort of haunting to think about. And another thing I'd read in that Freedom at Midnight book, was that Gandhi hated to be late. [00:11:05] And I believe his last meeting might have been with Nehru. And someone said, 'sahib, it's 06:00 or 06:05' and so he ended the meeting and he headed out to the garden. He was usually led by his two nieces, slash I don't know. . . there's some awkward stuff. Gandhi's a kind of a messy person. Messy ethically and morally and spiritually and an amazing, very complicated figure. So he walked. . . it's probably 150 yards from his room to that part of the garden that's still a beautiful garden and beautifully maintained. Walked there and I turned to go up to the platform where he would lead prayers and someone shouted out a greeting to him and he stopped to greet them. And the assassin, who wasn't supposed to shoot him then, the plan was for something else. But suddenly Gandhi had cut across where he normally doesn't walk. . . Again, fate. And there he was, right in front of the assassin, who pulled out his gun and shot him three times. And this was not that long after the hunger strike and it stunned the entire world. So I really wanted to see that just for historical purposes. But it's beautifully maintained. There's a couple of side buildings that have timelines of Gandhi's life with pictures of him when he was young and when he studied law in London, and then he was in South Africa for years. And that's sort of where he got involved in human rights and in minority rights and legal issues. [00:12:59] Anyhow, he led quite a life. I know a little bit more than the movie, Gandhi, and not a whole lot more than that, but it was really worth experiencing. And we had the place virtually to ourselves. Like many of the sites, maybe there were. . . upstairs in the installation, there were like 27 guides and four tourists. Yeah, kind of sad. [00:13:26] Hopefully, they have a lot of school groups and stuff, so they were busier than when we were there. Anyhow, on the way out of there, Gisele and I helped the Indian economy again. Some of the sidewalk vendors, well, they always want to sell you magnets because they're pretty cheap. But also this place, on the way in, we'd seen they had little wind up tuk tuk trucks, battery operated or whatever. And Gisele's like, 'I want to get some of those for Quincy and Dakota,' her grandkids. So we stopped, and I think I bought one, too, because they were kind of cute and pretty cheap. And then we were off to Dilli Haat. This is a kind of artsy, craftsy shopping area, mostly for tourists, I believe, but it's pretty inclusive of all kinds of crafts and arts from across India. [00:14:27] And the reason I say it's for tourists is there is an entrance fee. It's probably rs100, which isn't much, but you are required to pay it. Then you go in and there's booth after booth of, you know, hanging elephants and cloth and all the kinds of pottery and anything you can think of. [00:14:48] So I had had that on my list, and cousin Joan had told us about that as a place that, in case you forgot to buy something when you were in Kashmir or somewhere else, you could get it at Dilli Haat. Pretty much from anywhere in the country. [00:15:02] So we did a little shopping there. It was quite pleasant. And there was a whole restaurant area, too. You could hang out there for quite a while, but that wasn't on our menu, for now. We did a little bit better bargaining than we'd done in previous settings. [00:15:19] I bought a. . . I'd seen this, actually at Amber Ford in Jaipur. . . this guy was trying to sell me this metal shaped. . . I don't know, almost like a gourd shape, but it's metal. And you play it with little rubber mallets, detuned kind of scale. And they're pretty. And I was tempted to buy it there, but he was asking $20. [00:15:41] And I'm like, 'no way. Not paying $20 in India.' [00:15:45] So now, there's someone who was offering to sell it to me for 10,000. . .? rs1000. I've already forgotten the money thing. Anyhow, like about $12. And I'm like, no way. [00:15:59] So I walked by and another booth was said rs900. And so I was on my way. I think I got it for rs850. [00:16:06] Anyhow, not something I needed, but it came with a carrying case, so how could you refuse? So we bought a few arts and craftsy things there, and then we were off with Mr. Sam to the Sikh temple. The name, I think, is Gurudwara Banglu Sahib. Yes, my pronunciation has grown over the months! It's quite large, and it was getting to be dusk. And one of the nice things about the Sikhs in Delhi: free parking!!! In pretty much the exact center of New Delhi. We pulled down into the parking lot. It was free, and Mr. Sam took us up and we went into the temple. [00:16:53] Now, there's a room for tourists, as there is for almost any place you go in India, where you'll get your, again, I had my used orange headscarf. [00:17:05] But as I was putting that on and removing my shoes, the local guy apparently thought my capri pants, awkward looking shorts were, you know, an insult to the God of Sahibness or whatever. [00:17:19] So they have these pants, full length pants, for tourists to put on so you don't "insult the gods" or the book of Sikh or I don't know what it is. But let me tell you, these pants are made of a red tartan pattern, but raincoat material, plastic, with a stretch waist. So I put that on, and maybe the Sikh God wasn't offended, but the fashion gods definitely were! It's as bad as I could possibly look in India. And I paraded around like that for an hour or so at the temple and quite literally sweat my ass off because they didn't breathe. And it was still 97 degrees at 06:00 at night, or whatever time it was, six or seven. Anyhow, we went, and they were in the middle of evening service of some sort. So most people were seated and facing an altar area. [00:18:24] And of course, in all these temples, they're huge! they have a sound system where the spoken word or the music is piped all over the place. So we could hear what was going on. And at a certain point, everybody stood up and was silent and then chanting along with, I imagine, a standard recitation or prayer of some sort. And then there was a song that they sang, so we got to experience some of that. But the reason we went there with Mr Sam, was to go to the kitchen, the gigantic kitchen where, like Amritsar, they serve thousands and thousands of free meals daily to anyone who wants to partake. So we went and got in line, and it's like Space Mountain at Disneyland. They've got switchbacks and places where you sit and wait and you get in line, and then when they clear the big dining hall where everyone sits on the floor in rows. The volunteers let people eat, and then they get the metal trays to the exit, so it clears out. And then the next wave. They usher in and they put you in order. They tell you where to go and where to sit, and they line it up. And then the trays come out and one person's slopping the lentils onto your tray and the bread, and then there's some potatoes and just people with pails. It's not elegant in any way, but surprisingly, it's tasty. Now, I am not a floor sitting person, and I'm like, I will die if I have to try and sit cross legged on the floor and then eat off a tray off the floor. So I'm like, okay, I need to sit in the old person benches on the side walls where there were probably 100 people that sat. Not like the 1500 people who were in the rows. But Gisele sat with Mr. Sam on the floor. I think he seemed quite surprised and yet sort of delighted that she felt like she would sit with him and eat. So they sat on the floor and I sat on the benches on the side and observed. And I'm surprised to say that it was tasty. A lentil stew, potatoes, rice, a bread, kind of like a pita or naan roti. And they kept coming around. If you wanted more, you could have more. [00:21:00]I would say we had about ten to maybe 15 minutes for our shift to eat because, of course, there was another group waiting behind us. So you eat, and when you're done, you just take your tray and you go to the exit, and then there's a place where you dump your trays and it's quite a clatter because there are all these metal trays and spoons. [00:21:25] But a kind of wonderful, singular experience. And really cool to experience with Mr. Sam. And a wonderful thing about the Sikh religion, you could also go and help prepare the meal. Volunteerism is encouraged and welcomed. So if we wanted to go early and chop potatoes or onions or clean lentils for the next meal. . . We went back in the kitchen with Mr. Sam. He talked to somebody and they showed us the kitchen, which was mostly shutdown because it was evening. They were done for the day, with preparing food. [00:22:03]But it's an industrial place. Big, huge vats of things and these huge ovens where they crank out the bread and. . . It's hard to even imagine the scale of it and how many people they feed daily. And many of them desperately need it. We did it because it was an experience and we were welcome to come. But many people go there because it's the meal they're gonna get that day or they're not gonna eat. So pretty great thing. [00:22:37] So sadly, I had to part with my tartan raincoat pants. And we headed out and it was probably eight, nine. It was dark now, and I thought we were mostly done. But then Mr. Sam asked if we wanted to go to the India Gate. [00:22:57] And I was like, yes! So this is, again, one of the iconic places in Delhi. And we'd driven by a few times. It's sort of equivalent to Washington, DC with the National Mall. The government buildings are way at one end and there's a huge, long mall. Then at the other end is India Gate, a big arch, sort of like the Arc de Triumphe. Maybe not quite that big, but of that scale. [00:23:27] But in the evening, it was all lit up with shifting colors and lots of people out because it was a beautiful evening. And there's also side fountains that I hadn't noticed during the day, that are lit up in green and orange and white, the Indian colors. And so really a photographer's dream. And a beautiful, beautiful, dry, but hot Indian evening. So Gisele and I strolled around probably for about an hour and took pictures and just enjoyed being with the people before we headed back to the compound, 'the embassy', and of course, we were hot and sweaty. So what did we do? We went into the pool!! Yes, our 'private pool' at the embassy. What a great way to end an evening. [00:24:21] So that got us back to Delhi. Now, the next day was a Thursday, and we had already known from Mr. Sam was booked to do one of his regular tours down to Agra and back. So we didn't have him available to us. So we had planned that day, really our last full day in Delhi for Gisele and I, to go off and do our own exploring. We were pretty confident now. We knew the tuk tuks and knew the metro a little bit and we had our eye on a few different places. [00:24:51] So the next day was "Shawn and Gisele's Excellent Exploration of Delhi One Last Time". And let me tell you, we had some adventures. [00:25:07] Speaker B: That they can dim, dark. And. [00:25:30] Speaker A: So the day before, as we were on our way to the Gandhi Smithy, I think we drove bye. Something fabulous. I saw flash by and I said to Mister Sam, oh, what's that? And he said oh that's. [00:25:42] Speaker B: I'm like okay. Well when I got back and looked. [00:25:47] Speaker C: At a map and softer Jung's tomb. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Softer Jung's tomb, an obvious precursor to. [00:25:58] Speaker C: The Taj Mahal, same sort of grounds. [00:26:01] Speaker B: And again the design is coming along. [00:26:04] Speaker A: So we paid our rs700 and had the place to ourselves again, a ginormous land area, beautiful tomb. And there were probably six other people there with us. [00:26:16] Speaker B: It was hot as blazes. So we went up, explored a little bit. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Not as ornate as the Taj Mahal and certainly not inside, but still a wonderful layout. [00:26:26] Speaker B: And there's a small mosque right by the entrance too, with these fabulous onion domes painted yellow and pink, something like that. [00:26:38] Speaker A: Spent a little time there and then. [00:26:40] Speaker B: We figured out our metro walked. [00:26:43] Speaker A: We were about midway between two metro stops. [00:26:46] Speaker B: So we got back to a metro stop and went to the Connacht place. [00:26:53] Speaker C: Metro stop, which is dead center of New Delhi. [00:26:57] Speaker B: The circle, the Rajiv Chowk metro. Rajiv Chowk, something like that. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Anyhow, so we got there and we wanted to go see. [00:27:06] Speaker B: I'd seen somewhere the monkey temple. [00:27:11] Speaker A: It's not actually a temple to the. [00:27:13] Speaker C: Monkey God, but it's a temple outside which monkeys hang out. [00:27:17] Speaker B: So we got some ice cream on. [00:27:20] Speaker A: The street, which was quite good. It wasn't on the street, it was a vendor near the street and went. [00:27:26] Speaker B: To this, I think it's called Hanuman. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Mandir, right near central New Delhi. [00:27:33] Speaker B: And yes, there were monkeys. [00:27:35] Speaker A: And one who was very aggressively eyeing the end of Giselle's ice cream cone. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Which he did not get, but he wanted it. [00:27:44] Speaker A: And so we went into this temple and I have to say this was the only temple in our whole visit, in the whole country that was really. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Filthy and just flies everywhere. And it was an odd, odd place. [00:27:59] Speaker A: There were some beautiful altars and a. [00:28:04] Speaker B: Couple of photo ops, but it was. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Just not that attractive. [00:28:07] Speaker B: And so we didn't stay too long. [00:28:09] Speaker A: And frankly there weren't that many monkeys. [00:28:11] Speaker B: There were a few, but I'm glad we weren't attacked this time. [00:28:16] Speaker A: So then I, I'd also seen the Berlaman deer, another temple that I thought was close by. [00:28:22] Speaker B: So we tried to get a tuk. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Tuk driver to take us and one. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Guy was saying rs200 and we're like no. And another guy came by and said rs40. [00:28:32] Speaker A: So he said okay, we'll take that. Well of course it's rs40 if you stop at his friend's shop for a look. Just for a look. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Just. And we're like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not stopping anywhere. And he goes, well, then it's rs200. [00:28:50] Speaker A: It was quite a ways away. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Surprisingly, it didn't look like that on the map. [00:28:54] Speaker A: So we went to the berlemandir, which. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Is this interesting red. It reminded me of one on the. [00:29:01] Speaker A: Chan ni Chauk area by the old red fort. Anyhow, red and yellow. Unfortunately, no photos allowed inside, which is too bad, because it was one of the most peaceful, beautiful, beautifully maintained places we went. [00:29:15] Speaker B: But in back of it, there was what I can only describe as an indian amusement park. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Strange statues of tigers and elephants and leopards and fountains that weren't working. We strolled around that and took some bizarre photos because we did have our. [00:29:39] Speaker B: Camera by then, our phones by then. [00:29:42] Speaker A: But that was odd. [00:29:43] Speaker B: But the temple itself was quite nice. [00:29:46] Speaker C: So then, about the last thing I had on my list before I'd arrived of what I wanted to see in. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Delhi was the Jama Masjid, which is. [00:29:55] Speaker C: The largest mosque by far in Delhi. Now, Delhi's predominantly hindu, but there is. [00:30:03] Speaker B: A huge mosque there as well. [00:30:05] Speaker C: And in my clever trip planning, I. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Decided, well, wouldn't eid the end of. [00:30:10] Speaker C: Ramadan be a great time to go to the mosque? I'm being facetious. It just happened to be Eid and the place was mobbed. [00:30:21] Speaker B: And getting there was funny. We took the metro to another metro and got off at a stop, and it was in the middle of chaos. [00:30:31] Speaker C: Like wires and tuk tuks and people. [00:30:34] Speaker B: And horses and cows, and I really. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Wasn'T sure which direction to walk, so. [00:30:40] Speaker B: We started one direction and that didn't seem right, but we were still alive. [00:30:45] Speaker A: So we went the other direction. [00:30:48] Speaker B: And finally Giselle's like, let's get a tuk tuk, which we did, and then. [00:30:53] Speaker A: We had the tuk tuk ride of our lives. [00:30:56] Speaker B: It was pretty frightening. [00:30:57] Speaker A: But we did finally manage to get to the mosque, the Jama masjid, which. [00:31:02] Speaker C: I just think means main mosque in. [00:31:05] Speaker B: Almost all cities in India, anyhow, it. [00:31:09] Speaker C: Was just mobbed with people and everybody dressed to the nines, everyone in their. [00:31:14] Speaker A: Best sari and the kids were dressed. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Up and the streets were packed and everyone was enjoying Eid and enjoying eating during the day because Ramadan, they fast during the day and eat at night. So we. [00:31:27] Speaker A: We start to go up the steps. [00:31:29] Speaker B: To what we think is the entrance. And we was a foreshadowing of what. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Was about to happen to us for. [00:31:37] Speaker B: The next hour, these kids came up. [00:31:40] Speaker A: And asked if they could take a selfie with us. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Okay, they were taking with Giselle. And then I took a video and, you know, was aiming it at them. [00:31:49] Speaker A: And I'm saying, USA. And then they're all like, USA, number one. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Number one. [00:31:53] Speaker A: And suddenly I've got a crowd of 2025 teenagers, all happy to be on. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Camera, and then they all want selfies with us. So we take about ten selfies with different cameras. [00:32:07] Speaker A: And then I'm like, giselle, let's go. We gotta get in here. So we climbed up the steps, through the crowd to the entrance, and we're taking off our shoes, and someone's saying, no, no, no. [00:32:17] Speaker C: And we're like, what do you mean, no, no, no? [00:32:18] Speaker B: Well, we figure out we have to. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Go around to the opposite side of. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Of the mosque, which is down the. [00:32:24] Speaker C: Stairs, on the street, around the block. [00:32:27] Speaker A: Up the stairs to the foreigner entrance. [00:32:30] Speaker B: Where we have to pay our rs700. And so we did. [00:32:36] Speaker A: But it was no easy task. [00:32:38] Speaker B: Made it to the other side and got in. [00:32:41] Speaker A: And there's a huge courtyard full of people. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Just beautiful colors everywhere. [00:32:49] Speaker A: But then the parade of selfies started. Apparently, us white people from the USA. [00:32:56] Speaker B: Were quite the novelty because people would come up and ask if they could. It was. [00:33:01] Speaker A: I have to say, it was predominantly. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Young kids that wanted pictures, and they. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Weren'T shy, so they came up. [00:33:08] Speaker B: But it was weird. [00:33:10] Speaker A: The women were shyer. [00:33:12] Speaker B: And often they just stand next to Giselle and then have their phone and. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Take a selfie without saying much. The guys would ask me and I'd be, okay, one. But then it started being one and then one for the next guy, and. [00:33:25] Speaker B: And believe it or not, within about. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Ten minutes, I was to the point where I was like Tom cruise out in public. I'm like, no photo shoots. No photo shoots. We're done. No, no, no. We're done. You said one. [00:33:38] Speaker C: No, no, no. [00:33:38] Speaker A: Giselle. [00:33:39] Speaker C: Keep walking. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Keep walking. [00:33:40] Speaker C: Don't stop. [00:33:41] Speaker A: They're gonna. [00:33:41] Speaker B: We so. And it ended up. You'd think it'd be fun to be popular and, you know, a celebrity, and it wasn't that fun to be mobbed. [00:33:51] Speaker A: By aggressive photo paparazzi. [00:33:54] Speaker B: It wasn't quite that bad, but it. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Was a little bit annoying. [00:33:57] Speaker B: And I took some cute pictures with a father. Asked if I'd take a picture with. [00:34:03] Speaker A: His little kid and him, and that was cute. [00:34:05] Speaker B: And a lot of them were quite respectful. [00:34:07] Speaker A: But the teenagers, it became kind of. [00:34:09] Speaker B: A game to get a selfie with. [00:34:11] Speaker A: The foreigners, and I wasn't into that. [00:34:14] Speaker B: So we got out of there and then we were going to just take the metro back to the embassy. Little did we know that the metro that we were closest to, it was a nightmare to get there. [00:34:29] Speaker A: We were close to the Red Fort. [00:34:31] Speaker B: Again in old Delhi, and Chan Nichol, the shop market area, everybody was out. And it was the traffic and the foot traffic. [00:34:42] Speaker A: It was. [00:34:43] Speaker B: This was. [00:34:44] Speaker A: This was truly India. [00:34:45] Speaker B: We. It was really hard even to get into the metro station and just, oh, the humanity and the smells and the food and the, you know, urinals on. [00:34:58] Speaker A: The side of the wall. [00:34:59] Speaker B: And it was. It was India like you would expect it to be. But it wasn't that fun. When it was 101 degrees, we made it and there was a pool waiting for us. So that was our last day of exploration in Delhi. Quite fun and an adventure beyond our dreams. But that was most of. [00:35:22] Speaker A: We saw quite a bit of Delhi. [00:35:23] Speaker B: On our own and did, I thought, pretty well. Never got too lost. But we had to go home because. [00:35:30] Speaker A: We had an early start the next morning because now we actually are heading to Mumbai. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Mister Sam picked us up graciously. Lovely, and took us to the Delhi. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Airport, and we flew to Mumbai. I liked. I was surprised. It's quite a flight, actually. [00:35:47] Speaker B: It's two and a half hours. [00:35:48] Speaker A: It's pretty far southwest of Delhi. [00:35:52] Speaker B: It's on the coast, so a completely different. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Level of humidity, so it wasn't quite as hot on the ocean, but it was a way more humid, so. [00:36:04] Speaker B: If you blinked, you sweat. [00:36:06] Speaker A: But flying in, I was surprised. We sort of had to circle the airport and go around several pretty big bluffs, almost mountains as we circled. And in between the bluffs on the. [00:36:18] Speaker B: Way to the airport were these almost. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Endless looking slums, almost a continuous tin. [00:36:27] Speaker B: Roof of little shacks, and had no idea then, but when we landed, the. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Slums ran right up to the Runway and then the fence, and then there was the Runway. So we landed in this state of the art airport that's surrounded by huge, huge, endless to the eye slums. Welcome to Mumbai. [00:36:52] Speaker B: It was, I have to say, it's. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Almost three months now since I was. [00:36:57] Speaker B: There, and I'm still processing a lot. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Of what I saw in India and. [00:37:02] Speaker B: Especially in Mumbai, where it's just riches. [00:37:06] Speaker A: Next to the poorest thing you've ever seen. [00:37:08] Speaker B: And you can't make head nor tails. Heads nor tails. Whatever it is, it's hard to make sense of. And I'm still unpacking that information. I hate that terminal. [00:37:21] Speaker A: There's so much to unpack there, but. [00:37:23] Speaker B: I'm still doing it. [00:37:27] Speaker A: So we land, get to Mumbai. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Beautiful airport, but it's an hour taxi. [00:37:33] Speaker A: Ride to get down the peninsula. I think Mumbai originally was a bunch. [00:37:37] Speaker B: Of islands that they filled in, and. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Now it's a long, narrow peninsula. And the touristy part, or the part. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Where I'd booked our hotel down by there, gateway to India, the most famous site where the British came and where they finally left from. [00:37:56] Speaker A: So that area, the tourist area, is quite south on the peninsula. [00:38:00] Speaker B: So I had thankfully booked on booking.com, a taxi. [00:38:06] Speaker A: So it cost us $15 rather than what the hotel was offering, which was about $50 apiece. [00:38:13] Speaker B: So we made a long, interesting drive. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Down to our hotel, which was right by the gateway to India, a place. [00:38:22] Speaker B: Called Hotel Sula palace, which was really nice and beautifully run. Very friendly staff, and a delicious buffet included. Breakfast in a really nice dining area, where those are the best. [00:38:39] Speaker A: If you're traveling in India and you're. [00:38:41] Speaker B: Not sure if you should eat the. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Food in the hotels, they have a. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Lot of western ish choices, but also. [00:38:49] Speaker A: A lot of local cuisine. [00:38:51] Speaker B: So that was where we would do our sampling and taste things we didn't dare order or didn't know to order in restaurants. [00:38:58] Speaker A: So pretty nice hotel. So we got there, finally got settled a little bit, and then I'm like. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Let'S start off with a bang. [00:39:08] Speaker A: So we just walked. [00:39:10] Speaker B: This was actually an adventure. [00:39:12] Speaker A: We're about three blocks from the gateway to India, but getting there, there's streets. [00:39:17] Speaker B: And people seem to crawl over the. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Center divider, but then there's fences and you can see the gateway to India. [00:39:24] Speaker B: But you have to go back up. [00:39:26] Speaker A: The block and cross at the roundabout and get behind the fence that leads you to the passageway that gets you to. Anyhow, it was quite a passage to India. [00:39:36] Speaker B: Thank you, sir. David Lean got there. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Lots of people out. It's quite a fantastic place. [00:39:42] Speaker B: It's on the inner part of the. [00:39:45] Speaker A: Peninsula, so it faces. [00:39:46] Speaker B: I don't know, I think it's the. [00:39:47] Speaker A: Arabian sea on that side, right on the water. [00:39:52] Speaker B: And it's right adjacent to their very. [00:39:56] Speaker A: Famous Taj Mahal hotel. It's a high end hotel, unfortunately, in the last 15 years, 20 years, I. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Think they had a infamous terrorist attack. [00:40:10] Speaker A: With, I think, Sikh separatists. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Don't quote me on that, but they. [00:40:16] Speaker A: Held hostages and it was a long. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Siege and people died and there was a lot of fire damage. And I think they eventually had to storm the hotel. [00:40:26] Speaker A: And this is in recent history, it's. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Now been totally restored, and it's just. [00:40:32] Speaker A: A glorious five star hotel. [00:40:34] Speaker B: So Gisele and I wandered over there and peeked in the pool and looked at the Vendi and Versace shops like we were gonna buy anything. But we did go back later for a drink. That was kind of fun, but got. [00:40:49] Speaker A: In there, learned a little bit of that history. [00:40:51] Speaker B: And then I wanted to sort of get a feel for how big is Mumbai? [00:40:55] Speaker A: You know, what is the layout? And we had a most of that evening to our own discretion, so we decided to walk north. We'd driven by their fantastical train station, Central Station, on the way in. [00:41:13] Speaker B: It used to be the Queen Victoria. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Station, but now it's some unpronounceable, very. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Long indian name station that no one really, they say Victoria station still. [00:41:24] Speaker A: So we walked up that direction past. [00:41:27] Speaker B: A lot of shops and I and cricket fields, the big, long strip in the middle of. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Right at the congestion. [00:41:38] Speaker B: And all of a sudden, there's these. [00:41:39] Speaker A: Big fields, athletic fields, and tons of people out there playing cricket or practicing. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Cricket, and seemed really exotic. [00:41:47] Speaker A: So we got to the train station, and in the center of the traffic. [00:41:50] Speaker B: Circle, there's, like a platform good for. [00:41:54] Speaker A: Taking pictures of that. And right behind you, to your left. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Is another government building that's quite beautiful and exotic, too, for photo ops. So Giselle was up there, and I got up there, and then she dropped her water bottle, but a metal one, reusable one, in the flower beds, which were down below our feet. [00:42:18] Speaker A: So I said, oh, go get it. [00:42:21] Speaker B: But I had to go in traffic and try to lean over the fence to grab. I was. [00:42:27] Speaker A: It was a gymnastics feat. [00:42:31] Speaker B: I scored generally eights and nine and a halfs, but I was quite the spectacle. [00:42:36] Speaker A: And the people were enjoying my adventure. [00:42:38] Speaker B: From up on the tourist platform. [00:42:40] Speaker A: But I did get the water bottle. Thank you. [00:42:44] Speaker B: You're welcome. [00:42:46] Speaker A: But took pictures there. Went into the train station. [00:42:50] Speaker B: I thought it was going to be this expansive, big inside, but actually the. [00:42:55] Speaker A: Ticket office part is vaulted. It's sort of gothic mixed with indian mixed with. I don't know. [00:43:01] Speaker B: But it's. [00:43:02] Speaker A: It's interesting stained glass. But the ticket area isn't that big. And then it leads you right onto the platforms. But there's not much of another, of an interior space that I was expecting. Given the size of the building. I don't really know what's in the rest of the building. Maybe government offices or something, but a beautiful place. [00:43:20] Speaker B: And then, you know, endless platforms. [00:43:23] Speaker A: Trains are big in India. [00:43:25] Speaker B: We never did ride one that's on my list for. For next time. But did that, and then I was. [00:43:36] Speaker A: My goal was to make it over to the other side of the peninsula to Marine Drive. It's this big crescent shaped drive right. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Around, right along the ocean. I. Where I'd seen on YouTube or whatever, I'd read that people go and stroll. [00:43:52] Speaker A: In the evenings and go watch the sunset. So we started walking that direction. It was a ways and back to our cricket fields. [00:43:59] Speaker B: And now the professionals were getting out. [00:44:01] Speaker A: There and warming up in uniform, and. [00:44:05] Speaker B: It just seemed so exotic and perfect. And Gisele kept seeing a bus with the. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Cricket team on the side, like. [00:44:18] Speaker B: We'D have Michael Jordan or the New. [00:44:21] Speaker A: York Yankees, but instead they have their. The Mumbai Indians. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Clever name, I know, but they were everywhere, so Giselle kept seeing them. [00:44:31] Speaker A: And then we kept seeing more and more posters. [00:44:33] Speaker B: And even when we got to marine drive, there was the marine, the Mumbai. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Indians sign out in the water, all lit up in neon. And so big deal there. But we made it just as the sun was going down, some trouble getting across the road because there's fences everywhere. [00:44:49] Speaker B: And then you had to walk farther down. [00:44:52] Speaker A: In India, there's always a challenge, but beautiful sunset, tons of people. [00:44:56] Speaker B: There's big. It's sort of like the Michigan, like. [00:45:00] Speaker A: Michigan here in Chicago with the rocks. [00:45:02] Speaker B: Where you can sit. And at the water's edge, not quite. [00:45:07] Speaker A: The same, but some parts are like that. A lot of people standing and a. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Lot of people crowding in to try. [00:45:12] Speaker A: And get to the top and get the best view. [00:45:14] Speaker B: And so the sun goes down and the colors change. And it's a warm evening again and humid. [00:45:24] Speaker A: So we enjoyed the people watching. [00:45:26] Speaker B: And we started strolling south along Marine Drive. [00:45:31] Speaker A: Walked a pretty good stretch of it. At the south end, there's some really high end hotels right on the water. [00:45:38] Speaker B: That we couldn't afford, of course, but. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Then cut back across and made it back to our. The area of our hotel. [00:45:48] Speaker B: Well, we were starving by then and. [00:45:50] Speaker A: Sort of wanted something recognizable, so we went to KFC. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Which was right around the corner from our hotel. [00:45:59] Speaker A: It was busy, so I said, let's get it to go. So we ordered. [00:46:02] Speaker B: The choices were I zingy chicken sandwiches or different zingy chicken sandwiches. So we ordered some spicy zingy chicken sandwiches and a combo meal, and we. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Were standing waiting for it. [00:46:19] Speaker B: And then I saw a placard on. [00:46:23] Speaker A: The counter there back by the kitchen, promoting their masala sprite. [00:46:29] Speaker B: And I'm like, ahh, that sounds awful. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Like masala. I said, is that good? [00:46:35] Speaker B: And they're like, yeah. [00:46:38] Speaker A: And they were kind of strange reacting. [00:46:43] Speaker B: I'm like, I don't know why they're reacting that weird. [00:46:45] Speaker A: Well, then, when we got our order, I think we'd ordered that by default, or somehow as the drinks for our order. So they gave us our order, but. [00:46:56] Speaker B: They gave us a carrying, cute, carrying. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Cardboard contraption for our drinks. But we had four drinks, and we get back to the hotel, and there's two of them are Coca Cola, and two of them are the masala sprite, which I think we had ordered. But from my question, they realized I. [00:47:15] Speaker B: Was gonna hate it, so they'd given. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Us two cokes for free. So we sat in our Giselle's hotel. [00:47:22] Speaker B: Room, I think, and ate. [00:47:23] Speaker A: The sandwiches were really, really spicy, so. [00:47:26] Speaker B: We needed the drinks. [00:47:28] Speaker A: The masala sprite, as you would imagine, is dreadful. [00:47:31] Speaker B: I mean, what is masala flavor doing in a soda? [00:47:34] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:47:36] Speaker B: So I was glad for their foresight. And for regular coke was kind of a funny happening. [00:47:47] Speaker A: So that was our arrival in Mumbai. You know. [00:48:10] Speaker C: One full day free in Mumbai. [00:48:13] Speaker A: That's what we had the last. Our last Saturday in India. [00:48:17] Speaker C: So although it was not really on our original agenda, it was so hot and humid that we thought a boat ride sounds good. [00:48:25] Speaker A: So we took the ferry, which is. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Right by the gateway to India, for. [00:48:30] Speaker C: About an hour ride out to the Elephanta caves. [00:48:35] Speaker A: I'd seen these in guidebooks, and I. [00:48:36] Speaker B: Thought they were kind of underwhelming, but. [00:48:39] Speaker A: The photos really didn't do it justice. [00:48:41] Speaker B: So we get on these little, pretty small ferries. Fortunately, the bay was very, very calm. [00:48:51] Speaker A: This day, and we had a pleasant boat ride. It was at least an hour out, and you got to see the skyline. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Of Mumbai, which is quite large because it runs the length of that peninsula. [00:49:04] Speaker A: So some places it's very tall and gleaming skyscrapers and other places navy ships. [00:49:10] Speaker B: Or oil terminals or such. Anyhow, the interesting part about that boat ride is, again, as strange white people. [00:49:20] Speaker A: We were quite a curiosity, especially to. [00:49:23] Speaker B: The school students who were on the. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Ferry ride with us. [00:49:28] Speaker B: So eventually, a couple of the braver. [00:49:32] Speaker A: Probably twelve or 13 year old girls. [00:49:34] Speaker B: With some English came up and asked if they could. [00:49:39] Speaker A: I don't know if they were interviewing. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Us or they just sort of started asking questions. [00:49:44] Speaker A: And as they got braver and we talked to them, more of their friends came over. And by the end, we were taking. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Selfies and laughing and chatting with everyone. [00:49:55] Speaker A: On the boat, at least on the lower level. We didn't sit up top because it. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Was really hot in the sun. And the couple right beside us just laid down on their bench and slept. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Most of the way while Grandpa ate his snacks that he could buy from. [00:50:11] Speaker B: The vendor on the ship, all very indian, compacted into one little boat. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Pleasant ride. [00:50:18] Speaker B: We get out to the island and. [00:50:21] Speaker A: There'S a long pier where you disembark. And one of the novelties of the place is there's a little toy train. Not toy train, but miniature train. [00:50:31] Speaker B: And you can ride that train the. [00:50:34] Speaker A: Length of the pier, which is quite. [00:50:36] Speaker B: Long, and around the corner, and get to. It's not really a village, the little part with shops where that starts, and. [00:50:45] Speaker A: There'S restaurants before you have to climb the quite long and strenuous steps up to the caves. [00:50:53] Speaker B: Well, the train wasn't there when we disembarked, and we thought we'd beat the crowd, so we just walked. You know, it was not that much better than the train at Paul Bunyan land in Brainerd, Minnesota, quite frankly. [00:51:06] Speaker A: So it wasn't that exciting. [00:51:07] Speaker B: We didn't miss much. [00:51:09] Speaker A: But we got to the village and started on the stairs before most everybody. [00:51:14] Speaker B: Else, which was welcome. And it's so hot that the stairway is covered mostly with blue tarps like. [00:51:22] Speaker A: You'D put over to protect your lawn furniture from the rain. But there's shops all the way along. [00:51:27] Speaker B: The way up the stairs. [00:51:28] Speaker A: We were fairly early, so most of. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Them were just opening or setting up. [00:51:33] Speaker A: But they still wanted us to stop by and get very good deals and. [00:51:37] Speaker B: Buy things, but we didn't. But what I thought was curious, you. [00:51:41] Speaker A: Could hire six guys to carry you up the stairs a la Cleopatra. You sit in a chair and these. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Guys lift you on with these big logs and carry you up the stairway. [00:52:00] Speaker A: In retrospect, we should have done it, but I'm like, okay, I weigh 200 pounds. [00:52:04] Speaker B: I'm not going to make these guys carry me. [00:52:06] Speaker A: But it was quite a strenuous hike up the stairs to the elephanta caves. [00:52:12] Speaker B: Got up there, and the first cave that I think there's, we went to five. There's maybe six, maybe one. [00:52:21] Speaker A: The 6th one was too far to. [00:52:23] Speaker B: Go, or I don't remember, but at least five caves. [00:52:26] Speaker A: And I had seen pictures and it looked like there were some columns. [00:52:30] Speaker B: It was carved into the wood, wood. [00:52:33] Speaker A: Carved into the rock and not that much inside. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Well, no, that's not true. [00:52:38] Speaker A: There's all these beautiful carvings of Shiva. [00:52:41] Speaker B: And this God and that God and camels. And elephants. Well, camels. I don't know, elephants quite cool and quite extensive. [00:52:51] Speaker A: So we wandered around in there again. [00:52:54] Speaker B: Another guard slash guide slash moneymaker guy. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Said he would take pictures for us, and he had a couple of tricks. [00:53:03] Speaker B: Of how to take panorama, where Giselle. [00:53:07] Speaker A: And I would stand on one side of a doorway. He'd take our picture, and then he'd. [00:53:11] Speaker B: Say, walk behind me and come around. [00:53:12] Speaker A: And we go around the other side so it looked like we were in our own picture. Twice we did. [00:53:16] Speaker B: A couple of those was cute, you know, so meant we had to part. [00:53:21] Speaker A: With 100 or two in rupees, but. [00:53:23] Speaker B: It was worth it. People have to make a living, right? [00:53:28] Speaker A: And then you would hike farther around the top of the hill to another cave. [00:53:33] Speaker B: Some of them were more developed than others. Some had just. I can't remember the name of the thing. Kind of a. [00:53:42] Speaker A: Not a statue, quite, but of a Shiva temple. [00:53:45] Speaker B: There's a specific name for it, and I've forgotten it. [00:53:50] Speaker A: Then the third and the fourth caves were just basically caves with a few. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Remnants that wasn't quite as finished. And the fifth cave was quite elaborate. [00:53:59] Speaker A: Again, so that was a nice adventure. [00:54:03] Speaker B: And there was, of course, a pop. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Stand, we would call it. [00:54:09] Speaker B: But someone on the other side of. [00:54:11] Speaker A: The fence selling you sodas or whatever. [00:54:14] Speaker B: The treats of the area are, we didn't dare eat, but we got some water and sodas and sat with the. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Locals for a second. And before we made our way back down. [00:54:24] Speaker B: And, you know, it was a ferry. [00:54:26] Speaker A: Ride another hour back. So I had sort of planned out our day. [00:54:30] Speaker B: What can we do? I did want to see the Prince. [00:54:34] Speaker A: Of Wales museum, which we'd walked by. [00:54:36] Speaker B: Had a really cool oversized mask or. [00:54:40] Speaker A: Human head outside sculpture we'd seen the day before. But the building itself is quite interesting, architecture as well. And I'd read it, had quite a good collection. But we didn't have much time because. [00:54:52] Speaker B: I'd hired our taxi driver from the airport to drive us, but he was meeting us at 230, so we had about an hour to run through this museum, which is a shame, but wanted. [00:55:06] Speaker A: To get a feel for it, at the very least. So we poked our heads in there. [00:55:10] Speaker B: Lots of indian art, of which I know nothing, so I'm not quite sure. [00:55:16] Speaker A: What I'm looking at, but I guess now I know a little bit more. [00:55:19] Speaker B: And lots of beautiful pieces and sculpture and paintings from all different eras. [00:55:27] Speaker A: And they did have a small european. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Collection of not any super famous pieces that I know of anyhow, but some legitimate british landscape artists and stuff like that. [00:55:43] Speaker A: That wasn't too big. [00:55:44] Speaker B: But we raced through there. So I probably just missed the good stuff anyhow. But we had to meet our driver. [00:55:51] Speaker A: I wanted to take us to the. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Dobi ghat, which is the laundry slum. [00:55:56] Speaker A: I guess you call it slum, where. [00:55:58] Speaker B: They do all the laundry for everybody in Mumbai. [00:56:02] Speaker A: The hospitals, the people, the jeans, the clothes, the saris. It's a whole neighborhood called Dobigat, which. [00:56:10] Speaker B: I think means laundry neighborhood or so. And then I was conflicted about this. [00:56:17] Speaker A: Because I'd read about it. [00:56:18] Speaker B: But you can tour the third largest slum in the world, called Dharavi in Mumbai. [00:56:27] Speaker A: Some people call it slum tourism, and they say you have to sort of judge for yourself whether you feel it's ethical or not. But I'd also read enough about it to know that this. In this slum, if you go, your guide, is a local person who takes you around. [00:56:44] Speaker B: And I thought, well, okay, that feels a little bit, I don't know, legit, whatever. [00:56:51] Speaker A: So anyhow, we race through the Prince of Wales Museum to meet our driver. [00:56:55] Speaker B: Who I thought was going to sort. [00:56:58] Speaker A: Of be our tour guide. And then he's like, no, I'm your driver. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So then I'm like, well. [00:57:07] Speaker A: So he drove us to Dobigot, which. [00:57:09] Speaker B: Was mostly, weirdly, it's this pretty big slum where they do all the laundry. [00:57:15] Speaker A: But there's an observation deck. You get out of your car on the sideway, you're sort of on an. [00:57:19] Speaker B: Overpass, and you can just look down. [00:57:21] Speaker A: On the operations where they've got their. [00:57:24] Speaker B: Big stone tubs where they put all. [00:57:27] Speaker A: The stuff and slap it against the stone and rinse it. [00:57:30] Speaker B: And so there wasn't much of that going on. [00:57:33] Speaker A: Now, most of the laundry was hanging on the line to dry, all for as far as the eye could see. And here's one of those things that I still can't wrap my head around. Right next to it. [00:57:43] Speaker B: Well, actually, across the train tracks, there's. [00:57:47] Speaker A: A 50, 60, 70 story gleaming high rise or two right next to it. [00:57:54] Speaker B: And I can't. I can't figure out what the people in Dobie got. Think of the people who live in. [00:58:04] Speaker A: Those places and vice versa. I don't know how they make sense of that right next to each other. It's mind boggling. You know, the caste system is illegal, but it's still very much psychologically in place. [00:58:19] Speaker B: And in my amateur observation, it feels like the people are content or have. [00:58:26] Speaker A: Chosen to be content in the level. [00:58:28] Speaker B: That they were born into. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Upward mobility doesn't really seem to be desired considered possible. I don't know. It's really confusing. [00:58:40] Speaker B: It's hard to, in one quick visit, to understand all the social mores and conflicts and expectations, but I still can't wrap my head around it, just the dichotomy of these two things right next to each other. [00:58:57] Speaker A: It was interesting to see we didn't. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Go in it because they were mostly done working for the day. [00:59:03] Speaker A: But we did get our driver to call somebody to see if we could get the tour of Dharavi, the slum. And he called and the guy's like, oh, it's late, we're already booked. [00:59:15] Speaker B: And we're like, okay. But we really wanted to do it. [00:59:17] Speaker A: So he called. [00:59:19] Speaker B: I don't know who he called, but he arranged for us to. [00:59:23] Speaker A: To have a guide somehow at the last minute. And so he took us to a coffee shop, which was like a cool, off brand Starbucks place where we had a nice coffee and a pastry while. [00:59:34] Speaker B: We waited for our guide to show up. And about half an hour later, he showed up and it's this lovely 25. [00:59:42] Speaker A: Year old kid named Ravi from Dharavi, who's just a bundle of energy and. [00:59:48] Speaker B: Funny and pleasant and. [00:59:51] Speaker A: And he's going to show us around the Dharavi slum. And it's so fascinating. He tells us he's lived there his whole life. He's currently in college. [01:00:01] Speaker B: He's getting his master's degree in computer technology. [01:00:06] Speaker A: And I asked him, oh, so do you want to move to Hyderabad or. [01:00:10] Speaker B: The tech center of India and move up in the world? [01:00:13] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:00:14] Speaker B: And I'm like, he's like every other. [01:00:16] Speaker A: 25 year old in the world these days. He's living with the family and the slum for free. It's not so bad. It's what he's used to. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Didn't seem desperate to get out of there. [01:00:28] Speaker A: And in fact, when he was telling us about the slum, proudly proclaiming it the third largest in the world, I realized slum to them wasn't really a derogatory term. [01:00:38] Speaker B: It just sort of meant their neighborhood. [01:00:41] Speaker A: And when I could kind of accepted. [01:00:44] Speaker B: On that level what he was explaining. [01:00:46] Speaker A: To me made more sense. They have a whole system. It's chaos, it's crowded, it's huge, but there is a system, and for them it works. So he took us first to sort. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Of the industrial area, where there's bags and bags and bags and bags and rooms full of big, even oversized garbage bags of waste, plastic and stuff like that. [01:01:15] Speaker A: And you go down these small alleys. [01:01:18] Speaker B: And in a little nook in a room. [01:01:20] Speaker A: There's four people crouched on their haunches, probably 12 hours a day, and their job is sorting the plastic into different bins. And if it's too big, they have. [01:01:29] Speaker B: A hammer and they, like, chop it. [01:01:31] Speaker A: Up into smaller pieces and sort it into the various types of plastic. And then they hand those bins off to somebody who bags it up and takes it down to the next alley of bags of plastic, where they recycle it or they send it, I don't know. [01:01:47] Speaker B: But. [01:01:49] Speaker A: It was very strange. [01:01:51] Speaker B: And I'm like, well, should we take pictures? [01:01:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, take as many pictures as you want. [01:01:57] Speaker B: And it just seems. [01:01:59] Speaker A: It seems so weird. [01:02:00] Speaker B: Like, the people there either don't care. [01:02:03] Speaker A: Or they don't feel they have the station to say, we'd rather not have our picture taken. [01:02:07] Speaker B: But he didn't seem to think it. [01:02:10] Speaker A: Was a problem, and no one stopped us. So there's all these sort of awkward things you're trying to negotiate as you're standing in the middle of this slum. [01:02:19] Speaker B: And you can't quite fathom it. [01:02:22] Speaker A: There's. [01:02:22] Speaker B: Across the alley from the plastic smashers. [01:02:26] Speaker A: There were people making the interior of suitcases, like the fabric part. And they had sewing machines from 1922. [01:02:36] Speaker B: It looked like were very loud and sounded very dangerous, where they would hem. [01:02:43] Speaker A: That up and just make specific pieces. [01:02:45] Speaker B: And then the next booth or cubbyhole over there were people making plastic sheets. Like, I don't even know what they. [01:02:56] Speaker A: Would be for, lining for something, or they'd be made into plastic bags at. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Some point, and all pretty menial tasks. But as Mister Sam had told me. [01:03:07] Speaker A: At one point, he goes, well, in India, sir, there's a person for every job. They have a lot of people. So there's always somebody to do what you need to be done. And Ravi told us that, you know. [01:03:21] Speaker B: This area where they. [01:03:24] Speaker A: One place they were making soap, it was funny. [01:03:26] Speaker B: There were these guys in this horrible. [01:03:28] Speaker A: Looking room all sitting on the floor, because that's. Indians tend to sit on the floor. [01:03:33] Speaker B: And one of them are chopping these. [01:03:35] Speaker A: Blocks and they're packaging them in paper. [01:03:37] Speaker B: And wrapping them, and there's this little. [01:03:41] Speaker A: Assembly line of how they're doing this. And he goes, guess what they're making? [01:03:44] Speaker B: And I wasn't sure. And then he said, it's chocolate. Giselle and I both sort of gagged, and I'm like, oh, I thought it was like soap. He goes, ah, it's soap. Because it was disgusting chocolate. I'm like, okay, thank God it wasn't chocolate. [01:04:04] Speaker A: They were making soap. He said the industrial area is separate from the marketplace and mostly from the residential area. And people who work there make a little bit more money because they're exposed to more chemicals or more industrial things. They recycle metal. They make suitcases. Apparently Samsung or somebody got in trouble. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Because they were having suitcases made in. [01:04:34] Speaker A: These slums, but not really advertising it. [01:04:36] Speaker B: And so now on the tour, at. [01:04:38] Speaker A: Least that's not visible. [01:04:40] Speaker B: But the guide was, you know, wink, wink, wink. They still make them here, but it's a whole, many, many industries that people get paid for, and they get paid. [01:04:50] Speaker A: For the plastic, and they get paid. [01:04:52] Speaker B: For these suitcases, and they get. So, all right, so we walk through this area every now and again. [01:05:00] Speaker A: There's a little nook on the corner where people can buy snacks, or there's. [01:05:04] Speaker B: Someone stirring a huge pot over an open flame where they're cooking down the. [01:05:09] Speaker A: Onions and going to put in the lentils. [01:05:11] Speaker B: And I guess these were places where. [01:05:14] Speaker A: Like, the poorest of the poor people, because even within the slum, there's a. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Strata of who's higher and who's lower and who has the. [01:05:23] Speaker A: You have to work your way up to better jobs. [01:05:27] Speaker B: And if I understood correctly, Ravi was saying some of the poorest were country people from Uttar Pradesh, which is just north and east of Delhi. But apparently they're quite poor, uneducated country. [01:05:46] Speaker A: Folk who come there for a better life. And I guess they can make money there, but many of them don't even speak Bengali, or whatever the language is, or Hindi. And many of them sleep where they work. [01:05:58] Speaker B: And so part of their wage for the day is. Is used to go to one of those meager corner places where they can afford a meal on what they make and then sleep in. It's really hard to wrap your head around. Anyhow, so we made our way out. [01:06:18] Speaker A: Of that area, and then he took us through sort of, the marketplace, which is bustling. There's people all over the place, and there's so much fresh produce all across India. [01:06:29] Speaker B: Now, of course, most of them are. [01:06:31] Speaker A: Vegetarians, so it makes a certain amount of sense. [01:06:36] Speaker B: But it's hard to imagine that much. [01:06:38] Speaker A: Food being eaten before it goes rotten. But it must, because there's a lot of people and there's a lot of fruit stands. And this is where Giselle and I took our biggest risk of the entire journey. We were standing right by a vendor. [01:06:52] Speaker B: And it looked like he had biggest hunks of what almost looked like feta cheese. And I was asking, what is it? And finally, Robbie's like, ah. He pulls out rs20 or something, gives it to the guy who pulls a. [01:07:06] Speaker A: Little a leaf, literally a leaf out. [01:07:09] Speaker B: Of a coffee can that he has of leaves and cuts off a wedge. [01:07:15] Speaker A: Of that substance and chops it up on the leaf. The leaf is actually the plate, which he hands to you. And then we all have a piece. Well, it tasted like custard. It was a sweet. [01:07:28] Speaker B: A milk based something or another. [01:07:31] Speaker A: So, you know, we ate street food in the third largest slum in the world and lived to tell about it. It was delicious. [01:07:38] Speaker B: I wish my stomach and or my. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Health allowed me to try some of. [01:07:43] Speaker B: The other food along the way, which I think just isn't wise. So we did that. [01:07:49] Speaker A: But the market was bustling. [01:07:51] Speaker B: There's lots of choices and people just out and about. Another fascinating thing was like, how did. [01:07:58] Speaker A: You go to school? Well, even in a slum, there's, like, the school that anyone can attend. [01:08:03] Speaker B: There's a school that's sort of a church. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Well, not church, I guess. [01:08:10] Speaker B: I don't know, religious public school, where. [01:08:15] Speaker A: You pay a little bit more and you go. Or there's the private school. If your parents work really hard, you. [01:08:19] Speaker B: Can go to a private school and you wear it. [01:08:22] Speaker A: So even in the slum, there's several different layers of education possibilities. [01:08:27] Speaker B: And they're just stuck in there with everything else. [01:08:30] Speaker A: There's usually a little courtyard with a. [01:08:33] Speaker B: Playground or outdoor classrooms. [01:08:37] Speaker A: It is a mishmash. You walk by the river. Oh, it's not the river. It's the open cesspool that drains into the river. That drains into the bay, you know, untreated. [01:08:48] Speaker B: And that's right by the fish market, which seems really good. And. And then it's getting. [01:08:54] Speaker A: It was getting dark. This guy gave us Giselle and I. We ended up. Because we were so late. [01:08:58] Speaker B: We. [01:08:58] Speaker A: It was just the two of us. [01:08:59] Speaker B: That he showed around, which was really fun. He was charming and funny and. [01:09:04] Speaker A: And bouncing around and up and down the stairs as the old people trailed. [01:09:08] Speaker B: Him like he was in Slumdog millionaire. I mean, it really. It was sort. It's. [01:09:13] Speaker A: I know it's a cliche, but the kid was just full of life and happy as could be and singing to himself and just showing us around where he lived. [01:09:23] Speaker B: But as it was getting dark, they were. [01:09:25] Speaker A: The next day, there was some sort. [01:09:26] Speaker B: Of festival or celebration. [01:09:28] Speaker A: So a lot of places had fancy. [01:09:29] Speaker B: Lights out, and we're putting up these. [01:09:32] Speaker A: Temporary stages with curtains. [01:09:34] Speaker B: And it was just, India is so full of color and, yeah, so that was, I'm still, again, conflicted about looking at people's lives this way. But I wanted to try and see if I could understand and fathom that sort of life. I still don't know. Oh, he took us the very last thing. We were walking through the, really, the. [01:09:59] Speaker A: Back alleys of people's residential neighborhoods. He goes, yeah, the door's open. Just look in. He said, most people have a room. That's where they live. [01:10:09] Speaker B: And from what I could see looking. [01:10:11] Speaker A: In, a lot of them were quite nice. [01:10:12] Speaker B: They had nice marble flooring and walls. [01:10:16] Speaker A: And paintings and stuff, but they're small. But at a certain point, he said to us. So in these rooms, he goes, I live in a room with my family. [01:10:26] Speaker B: My mother, my father, my brother, his. [01:10:29] Speaker A: Wife and my niece. And in a slum, you do everything in that room, everything, he says with knowing eyes, except poop, poop. [01:10:45] Speaker B: You have to, like, go and wait. [01:10:47] Speaker A: In line and pay your rs3. [01:10:49] Speaker B: And he goes, but it's really beautiful and very sanitary. I'm like, okay, but, like, just everything, wink, wink. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Everything else happens in that room. [01:11:02] Speaker B: It's, wow, what a different. A different sense of personal space, or lack thereof, anyhow. So Dharavi slumdin in Mumbai, a real highlight and mind blowing experience. [01:11:25] Speaker A: We were lucky to have that kid. [01:11:27] Speaker B: He was something. [01:11:30] Speaker A: And that was pretty much our day, I think. I flipped around. [01:11:33] Speaker B: I think that was the night we. [01:11:34] Speaker A: Went to the KFC. The night before we went to the Taj and had a drink while we. [01:11:38] Speaker B: Were considering our plan, nonetheless. [01:11:42] Speaker A: So two pretty full days in Mumbai. The next morning, we had a little bit of time before we had to. [01:11:49] Speaker B: Catch our flight back to Delhi. And so we got up, went on a little morning walk in the area. [01:11:56] Speaker A: I wanted to go see. There was supposed to be a beautiful. [01:11:59] Speaker B: Church from the british community a couple blocks away. [01:12:03] Speaker A: So we walked over there, closed for the year for renovation, so didn't see that. So we wandered, found a vegetable market. [01:12:11] Speaker B: That was full of beautiful vegetables and color and stuff. [01:12:16] Speaker A: And along the way, I walked by a little temple or shrine of some sort. [01:12:22] Speaker B: And the monk had come out and sort of grabbed my hand and said, I don't know what. [01:12:28] Speaker A: He just sort of took my hand. [01:12:30] Speaker B: And gave me a sugar pill and rubbed a marigold thing between my eyebrows. And then was wrapping, before I knew. [01:12:40] Speaker A: It was wrapping this red thread around. [01:12:42] Speaker B: My wrist and tied it off and. [01:12:46] Speaker A: Said, what is your name? And it did some chant and some. [01:12:50] Speaker B: Prayer for Sean and good luck. Just on the sidewalk as I was passing by. [01:12:57] Speaker A: It happened all before I even knew it was happening. [01:12:59] Speaker B: And gave me a marigold and sugar pills, I think. I don't know what that meant. But then, of course, he wanted rs1000, and I'm like, a thousand rupees. [01:13:12] Speaker A: I mean, I'm not paying you $12. [01:13:14] Speaker B: I don't know, but, I mean, I don't know if I give them 100 or 200 something, but they're already sort of learning the way of tourists and overreaching. [01:13:29] Speaker A: But weirdly, I don't wear jewelry, and I don't do. I still have that thing on my. [01:13:35] Speaker B: Wrist, my red thread, I guess I don't want to undo my. My good luck. [01:13:41] Speaker A: I haven't won the lottery or anything. [01:13:43] Speaker B: But nor have I been ill or. [01:13:47] Speaker A: Run over by a bus. [01:13:48] Speaker B: So maybe it's working. [01:13:49] Speaker A: It's hard to tell. [01:13:51] Speaker B: So, lovely, sweaty morning, walk around. [01:13:55] Speaker A: One more look at the gateway of. [01:13:56] Speaker B: India before we got our same taxi driver to drive us 1 hour back to the airport, which I was shocked once we went through, got checked in. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Which is the terminal's lovely. But then the shopping area where you could get food and stuff was like rodeo drive. Gleaming marble and Bulgari. This and every designer name thing. Starbucks, that. And then if you look out the windows, across the Runway right there, huge slum just as far as your eye can see. [01:14:37] Speaker B: And I'm just thinking, do those people. [01:14:41] Speaker A: Ever walk around the corner into this airport and say, what the fuck? [01:14:46] Speaker B: I mean, they probably wouldn't dare or. [01:14:50] Speaker A: They wouldn't be allowed, or they. I don't know. [01:14:53] Speaker B: But I can't figure out how these. [01:14:56] Speaker A: Two worlds live next to each other. [01:14:58] Speaker B: And that people seem to accept that as their reality. So, anyhow, that was most of our. [01:15:07] Speaker A: Wonderful adventure in Mumbai. [01:15:09] Speaker B: I didn't see any Bollywood stars, honestly, I wouldn't know if I did because. [01:15:15] Speaker A: I don't know any Bollywood stars. [01:15:16] Speaker B: So it's like Hollywood. [01:15:19] Speaker A: There's an industry there, but it's not. [01:15:21] Speaker B: Like you can just walk onto the. [01:15:22] Speaker A: Set of friends and say, hi, David Schwimmer. Oh, look, there's Jenny. [01:15:28] Speaker B: So I saw none of the industry. I think that's kind of in a. [01:15:32] Speaker A: Different part of town from where we were, but it was still fun to be there. Very different feel from Delhi. [01:15:51] Speaker C: So that's almost the end of our slightly over two week adventure in India, but not quite. We had to get back from Mumbai, back to Delhi, and we got back mid afternoon, about 03:00 and my luxury business class non stop flight on Air India back to Chicago, didn't leave till just after midnight, so we had most of the evening to see a little bit more of Delhi. And Giselle is a great travel companion. She's always game. So we made double use of Mister Sam this day. He picked us up at the airport, I think at about 03:00 p.m. or so. [01:16:37] Speaker B: Asked if we liked sweets. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Sir, did you like sweets? [01:16:40] Speaker C: And whatever. So he. Very lovely man. [01:16:44] Speaker A: He took us to his favorite sweet shop. [01:16:48] Speaker C: We dissuaded in the car. He went in and he bought candy, a box of candy for each of us to take home and share with our friends. [01:16:57] Speaker B: His favorite, they were crushed like cashew. [01:17:02] Speaker A: Was the almost like cashew flour made. [01:17:04] Speaker C: Into little squares with oddly silver leaf on the top. We'd have several incarnations of that treat. [01:17:12] Speaker B: Over the couple of weeks. [01:17:14] Speaker C: There's ones that are more coconut based and ones that are like a burnt caramel almost flavor, but these were cashew and delicious. And a very lovely gesture from our new friends. [01:17:29] Speaker A: So we went back to the embassy, freshened up a little bit, and then. [01:17:35] Speaker B: I been looking through the guidebooks and thought, well, there's this place called Lodi. [01:17:39] Speaker C: Gardens that looks really nice and I. [01:17:42] Speaker B: Think we could just tuk tuk it over there. So we walked out of our embassy. [01:17:49] Speaker C: And took a left and went down. [01:17:51] Speaker A: We were right by a hospital. [01:17:53] Speaker B: So there were usually tuk tuks just sitting there waiting for someone and there always was. [01:18:00] Speaker A: So we got a guy and paid him a little bit more because it. [01:18:03] Speaker B: Was longer than our normal trip, but not too far, maybe two or 3 km. But in a tuk tuk, that takes some energy. And got to this lovely garden. [01:18:17] Speaker A: And it was Sunday and everybody was out. It was a warm evening. [01:18:21] Speaker B: Well, they all were, but just a pleasant evening. And we walked right into like a floral show. It was beautiful gardens with all kinds of things in bloom. But then we made our way deeper. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Into the park and there were several. [01:18:37] Speaker B: I don't know if they were temples. [01:18:39] Speaker A: Or ruins or older buildings. [01:18:41] Speaker B: Just wonderful. The first one sort of like almost looked like the Jefferson Memorial in DC, that shape of a building, but with the different colored stone. And that had some, I won't say bad, but not accomplished guitar players playing inside where it was echoey. [01:19:02] Speaker C: Didn't stay too long for that. [01:19:05] Speaker B: But then a little further on, there was an area with a couple different. [01:19:09] Speaker A: Temples and obviously an Instagram spot because. [01:19:13] Speaker B: There was a lineup to stand out on this 1 st balcony for the perfect view for your influencing situation, whatever it was. We didn't do it, but everything around it was nice. [01:19:26] Speaker A: And the Indians were all out picnicking. [01:19:28] Speaker B: In their beautiful, colorful saris and just enjoying the evening. [01:19:33] Speaker A: It was fun to feel like you. [01:19:34] Speaker B: Were just kind of doing what the regular folk in Delhi were doing that evening. It's a pretty big park. [01:19:42] Speaker A: So we strolled farther down where there. [01:19:43] Speaker B: Was a pond with lovely fountains in the middle of it and lovely stone bridge and another ruin that you couldn't go into, but you can kind of peek through the gate. And then it was dinner time, and. [01:19:59] Speaker A: We were trying to figure out what to do. [01:20:01] Speaker C: We hadn't really been quite in this. [01:20:03] Speaker A: Area of Delhi before, so we just. [01:20:06] Speaker B: Finally figured how to get out of the park, which was somewhat of a challenge, but we made it. And then I'm like, well, let's just. [01:20:13] Speaker A: Hang on left here. [01:20:14] Speaker B: There's a place called con market down the street. [01:20:19] Speaker A: Again with a map. You're not sure how far it is. It looks close, so this wasn't too bad. [01:20:24] Speaker B: Later, Joan told me con market is the most expensive real estate in all of Delhi per square foot. I don't know. It's sort of like a rodeo drive kind of conclave with nice little shops and restaurants. But it didn't seem that fancy to me. [01:20:46] Speaker A: There were some nice cars around, but. [01:20:48] Speaker B: We found a cheap place upstairs to have some basic indian food that was, you know, fine. [01:20:59] Speaker A: And then it was right by a metro station. [01:21:02] Speaker B: And we hopped back down on our metro and made it back to our stop, got a tuk tuk, and made. [01:21:08] Speaker A: It home to the embassy just in. [01:21:11] Speaker B: Time to repack, rest a little bit. [01:21:13] Speaker A: And await the arrival of Mister Sam, who took us to the airport. [01:21:18] Speaker B: And then, well, my check in went. [01:21:22] Speaker A: Really fast in business class, and Giselle. [01:21:25] Speaker B: Had to wait in line for a long time, and. But she made it through. [01:21:31] Speaker A: We were on the same flight. She flew back to Chicago. [01:21:33] Speaker C: Unfortunately, she was in. [01:21:38] Speaker A: The back in. [01:21:38] Speaker B: Economy, which was a totally different experience. I went back halfway through the flight, I went back there, and it was cold. [01:21:48] Speaker A: The lights were on. Giselle said they never dimmed the lights. I've never seen that on a long. [01:21:53] Speaker B: Haul international flight where they never turn off the lights so you can pretend like you slept. They were pretty packed in there. But then I went back to business. [01:22:03] Speaker A: Class and slept the rest of the way. What can you say? Sometimes life isn't fair. [01:22:08] Speaker B: We had a great, great trip. It's hard to even sum up how well it went, how lucky we were. [01:22:16] Speaker A: How the people we knew and met. [01:22:18] Speaker B: Were so helpful and gracious to us, but it really is a trip of a lifetime. [01:22:24] Speaker A: I've thought of this quite a bit. [01:22:25] Speaker B: When I was there, and even since. [01:22:27] Speaker A: I've been back about would I recommend going to India? [01:22:31] Speaker B: And my answer is, oh, yeah. [01:22:33] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. [01:22:35] Speaker B: But there's some caveats, and one of them is, you know, it's a long flight. [01:22:40] Speaker A: Some people can't handle those flights. [01:22:42] Speaker B: I get it. But if you can, the country is. [01:22:46] Speaker A: Fascinating and just on its way up. [01:22:49] Speaker B: But with millennia of history and art and zillions of people who I really. [01:22:55] Speaker A: Liked, I found them to be polite and friendly and welcoming, curious. [01:23:01] Speaker B: And, you know, if you went for the Taj Mahal and went home, it's. [01:23:07] Speaker A: Still worth it if you only went there. And of course, you wouldn't only do. [01:23:10] Speaker B: That, but it's a wonderful country. [01:23:15] Speaker A: I hope to go back. [01:23:16] Speaker B: You can do 18 different trips and never repeat yourself. [01:23:20] Speaker A: It's such a huge place. So I hope I get back there in my lifetime. [01:23:23] Speaker B: There's plenty of other things to, and. [01:23:26] Speaker A: I have no problem going back to the Taj Mahal. It's worth a repeat visit. [01:23:31] Speaker B: And so, yeah, I would say with. [01:23:33] Speaker A: Planning and some insider knowledge, I highly recommend India. I'm surprised to say that I didn't. [01:23:41] Speaker B: Know whether it would be like, well, I liked it, but it was kind. [01:23:45] Speaker A: Of rough and tumble or whatever. No, I recommend it. And it's only getting more user friendly. [01:23:52] Speaker B: In a western traveler sense, of course, but transportation is getting better and more reliable and better marked. So, yeah, go to India. A Sadeena addendum to our trip. [01:24:20] Speaker A: Giselle's mother, Lorna, my aunt, died two. [01:24:25] Speaker B: Weeks after we returned. [01:24:27] Speaker A: She had been in poor health for. [01:24:29] Speaker B: Several years and very poor health for over a year. [01:24:33] Speaker A: So it wasn't a surprise, but nonetheless. [01:24:39] Speaker B: A sad tag to the end of our trip. But tomorrow I'm getting on a plane and going to flying to Minnesota and. [01:24:47] Speaker A: Then driving with my siblings to the middle of North Dakota, where Lorna Zerbel. [01:24:53] Speaker C: Lorna Luth grew up. [01:24:54] Speaker A: And we're having her celebration of life just after the 4 July. So I look forward to seeing Giselle. [01:25:01] Speaker B: Cousin Joan and her new knee and. [01:25:04] Speaker A: The rest of the relatives up in the wide open plains of central North Dakota. Yes, Dakota truly is the place where you belong. Auntie Lorna, thank you for always being yourself. You are a special, singular human being being. And we miss you dearly already. Thanks to all of you who went. [01:25:45] Speaker B: Along on my three part journey to India. [01:25:47] Speaker A: I hope you enjoyed it. Please come back to Chicago. Musician for more episodes eventually. Until then, I'm your host, Sean Stengel. [01:26:17] Speaker B: This is the quickest way to clear out stuck poop.